00:00I don't know what's worse, man.
00:01I don't know if it's worse to audition and get the part or do something else
00:04and for Anna to be like, that's my guy.
00:06Of course, I'm the one that's right, but...
00:10...and three back things.
00:12Live from the chapter of the stages in Hollywood, it's the Big Game!
00:19Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Woman of the Hour.
00:26I was really blown away by all of your very deliberate shots
00:30and cutaways and reactions that work to build tension.
00:35The work you did with your DP, Zach Kupferstein,
00:39stands out because every single shot conveys an emotion,
00:43whether it's fear or trepidation or embarrassment.
00:47Zach was incredible and so organized,
00:49but I spoke to him early on about the way that I hoped to use
00:56reflection and distortion in key moments.
01:00A woman through a camera lens or through a mirror or a car window
01:04in moments when she's being really missed as a whole person,
01:09in moments where she's being looked at but not seen
01:13because it's tricky to put that across in a film
01:17without using a kind of established visual language
01:21of the way that a predator might view a woman.
01:26If I use his literal perspective,
01:29am I contributing to a normalization of women being objectified on film?
01:35It was just tricky and so that was a way that I wanted to attempt that.
01:42And then you sort of add in these moments with performance
01:44where, for example, Tony Hale's character seemingly won't look at me
01:50and will only look at me through the mirror
01:52and I keep trying to get him to actually just look at me.
01:55And that, I thought, created some fun performance moments.
02:01And I'll say that, you know, getting certain things across to the audience.
02:07Look, I'm biased because this is what I've devoted my life to since I was 12,
02:12but I always think that performance is king.
02:17To me, the whole reason that movies exist is as a vehicle for great actors
02:23to give great performances and I love that every department in the movie
02:28thinks a movie is a vehicle for great production design
02:30or a great costume design or a great cinematography,
02:33which is exactly as it should be.
02:35Of course, I'm the one that's right, but...
02:38I mean, look, Anna, you know, she's an actor first,
02:41so she understands what helps actors and she made it clear
02:45that she wanted to do this section of the movie like a play, you know, like the show.
02:50So we did, I think it was like a 20-page scene of the whole sequence of the show.
02:56You know, Tony coming in, presenting the contestants and Anna,
02:59and it just felt like it was real, like we were there, like, you know,
03:04there was no cuts in between, it just kind of flowed together.
03:08And, you know, that was such a smart move from Anna.
03:12I mean, I remember that set on that game show and just, I mean, shout out to the set design,
03:17like the oranges and the pinks, it was very of that time, and they did a beautiful job.
03:22Yeah.
03:22But yeah, I think now that he says that, it was.
03:25It was shot very chronologically, and also just her angles that Anna chose.
03:31Like, there was one angle where she's looking, you're looking through the glass
03:34and you don't really know what's going on.
03:36So what I so appreciate that Anna did is it's the perspective of the victim.
03:40This whole movie is the perspective of the victim, and if anything, Rodney is kind of the B story.
03:47You know, the story that she wants to tell is, like, the victim story and the culture at the time.
03:51Right.
03:52Which is, you know, so fantastic.
03:55Bachelor number two, what are girls for?
03:57Why does this feel like a trap?
03:59I don't know, why does it?
04:01How did we as a society allow the dating game to happen?
04:04Oh my God, I mean, truly.
04:06That's the great question.
04:08It's really, really horrific to think that a serial killer made it on that show.
04:15I mean, but I think, you know, thankfully, I don't think and hope that wouldn't happen today.
04:21But in many ways, there's still, yeah, I mean, yeah, there's still just, like, so many ways in which we
04:28still have so many steps to move forward, even now.
04:32Yeah.
04:33In terms of just, like, honoring people's instincts and also listening to people when they're raising alarm about something and
04:42taking it seriously or at least investigating.
04:45And, yeah, it's pretty devastating to think that that actually happened.
04:49I mean, I'm a kid of the 70s.
04:51Yeah.
04:51So I remember this show.
04:53I remember seeing it.
04:55Yeah.
04:56I remember vaguely hearing about this specific story, but then it wasn't really until this that I obviously did a
05:02deep dive on all the facts.
05:04But, man, just the just the allowance and the acceptance of a lot that was said, you know, my character,
05:14Ed Birch, you know, offstage, he was obviously incredibly demoralizing to women and objectifying.
05:21And he had his onstage presence, but he couldn't help but like that offstage bleed into it, you know, just
05:28like little remarks he would make.
05:30And just also that his detachment, I would, you know, I went on YouTube and just watched not just him,
05:37but a lot of hosts.
05:38There was just this kind of rhythm of their speech.
05:40And it was kind of like, you know, welcome to the dating game.
05:43Da da da da da.
05:43Like, it was kind of a character that he put on, which just kind of fed into that whole detachment
05:49from humanity, you know, that I saw.
05:52Anyways.
05:53Yeah.
05:53I mean, I don't know how Pat Sajak did it for as long as he did.
05:56Man.
05:56But like, I mean, it's it has morphed.
06:00You know, thankfully.
06:01Yeah.
06:01Thankfully, we've gotten a lot better as a society.
06:04We've got a long way to go.
06:05But just you look back at that time and it's just crazy.
06:09And then we're talking about the 70s.
06:11You know what I'm saying?
06:12There was no phone with swiping then.
06:15So I guess you got to go to national television to find love.
06:21Hey, it's still it.
06:22Listen, man, it's still happening.
06:23There's so many dating games nowadays.
06:25But the fact that he had the courage to, you know, be on national television, knowing the things that he
06:33knew that he had done.
06:35I feel like for him was just like a power move.
06:37Right.
06:38Just present yourself to the world, to the nation.
06:40And yet, you know, you're doing, you know, horrible crimes.
06:43So it just plays on who he was as a person, I think.
06:47No matter what words they use, the question beneath the question remains the same.
06:52What's the question?
06:54Which one of you will hurt me?
06:56There's an element of this movie that involves auditioning and being right for the role.
07:00And so when you go out for the role of serial killer and then you get it, is there an
07:05element that makes you think, like, why am I the right guy to play serial killer?
07:09It actually gets worse, dude.
07:11So I did an audition for this.
07:15Anna saw me in, and she told me this, Anna saw me in a series that I did, Station Eleven.
07:22And when she saw it, she was like, that's Rodney.
07:26So I don't know what's worse, man.
07:28I don't know if it's worse to audition and get the part or do something else and for Anna to
07:32be like, that's my guy.
07:34Yeah, I mean, look, it's definitely as an actor something that I always kind of wanted to do.
07:39You know, it's just fun, you know, studying their psychology and studying their life and building a character around it.
07:47It's all awesome.
07:48So here we are, man. I did it.
07:53Excuse me, man.
07:55Can you give us another round?
08:00There were certain visual things that felt important to me.
08:06You know, I remember when I was pitching myself, I think I talked about the parking lot sequence at the
08:13end
08:13and how I could imagine this frame where, you know, you kind of see Cheryl and Rodney
08:19and it's, you know, the expanse of the isolation that they're in in that moment
08:25and knowing that even if Cheryl ran for it, she wouldn't even make it out of the frame before Rodney
08:32was on top of her, you know?
08:33Sure.
08:34And really giving you that visceral sense of the kind of physical danger that she's in.
08:39You know, then on the other hand, I think about the Tiki Bar.
08:43And while there were, you know, very specific visual and production design things that felt important in that scene,
08:50I changed some of that scene like the night before we shot it to just make it like significantly more
08:58subtle.
08:59And I think if you read that scene on paper, it would sort of feel like a scene where nothing
09:03happens.
09:03And I was really, really trusting that Daniel Zavato, who is extraordinary in the movie, and I would be able
09:13to make something happen that felt really grounded,
09:17but also really, really real and present.
09:21That's good. I'm into that.
09:25You know, what's sort of miraculous about Anna is the conversations we had on set were about the character.
09:32They were, you know, sometimes about technically what she needed for a shot.
09:35And from my perspective, it's all just about storytelling, you know, as if it were a play.
09:40And when I saw the movie, I think I really understood the depth of how specific and how intentional she
09:47was with each moment.
09:48I mean, the way silence is used, the way the music is used, each shot.
09:54But it's, it kind of blew me away. We filmed this movie two years ago, and I saw it two
09:58months ago.
09:59And to get to watch it and really feel like such a fan of it, and that's because of her
10:04intentionality.
10:05She really, I cannot believe this was her first film as a director. She's remarkable.
10:11It was surprising because I remember we had to do a reshoot or we added a day or something like
10:18that.
10:18But she showed me for the first time, like I think the beginning of the movie, like the first like
10:25three minutes.
10:26And I was like, I love it. You know, I love what you did here because you're, like you said,
10:32you're staying with the characters for maybe an extra two seconds, but that really conveys the whole thing, right?
10:39And I mean, I personally think that cinema should do that more. I feel like we cut too quick in
10:46a lot of things.
10:47And so seeing it was a surprise. There was no discussion prior. And I was actually like, yes, Anna, like
10:54that's, that's, that's awesome.
10:55I mean, obviously, it's a very fragile story to tell. So everybody wanted to, you know, feel like whoever's captaining
11:02the ship knows what they want.
11:03It's a safe space. And she just really did amazing with that.
11:08So what do you say?
11:15Autumn, I can't not talk about the final scene. I mean, it's everything that the movie builds up to.
11:21And so I just need to get your reaction to just seeing the final shot of the film and maybe
11:26what was going through your head and what you remember about, about filming that sequence.
11:31Yeah. Um, when I really, when it really dawned on me that I was going to be like the final
11:38frame of the film, it stressed me out a little bit. Honestly, it was a lot of responsibility.
11:42I was like, what do you mean the final frame of the film? Um, but Anna was so good at
11:48reassuring me that I was the person for the job, you know, and, and without her being there to help
11:55me feel confident in myself as an actor.
11:57And as a person, I definitely, I don't think I could have gotten to a place where I felt comfortable
12:03enough to really like release and like let everything go, you know?
12:07And, and we shot that very final clip of just the breathing on a separate day from everything else. And
12:13so it was just a full, probably 10 minutes of me just working myself up in like to get to
12:22that moment. And we shot it all in a series and it was just, Anna was like, we'll just keep
12:28rolling until you feel like you've really let it all out.
12:32And it was just really beautiful. It was, it felt really natural to, to kind of let that be a
12:38release of everything that happens in the film. And as an actor, it was very therapeutic to let everything go.
12:44And yeah, Anna, Anna was just so helpful in, in allowing me to take the space and the time that
12:51I needed to get there for that final moment. And I think it, yeah, I'm, I'm just really proud of
12:57how it turned out.
13:02I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm.
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